[Diversity-talk] Who Maps the World

[Mikel Maron]

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/who-maps-the-world/555272/

* Mikel Maron * [phone] @mikel s:mikelmaron

[Marc Gemis]

Hallo,

I will not dispute the numbers in this article, but I do have some
questions on the data behind the numbers.

- Why is a bar considered a men-only place ? Can't it be a trendy
place for all kinds young people to enjoy a good night out ?
I have seen pubs mentioned in previous articles as well. Where I
live we map "taverns" as pubs. Many taverns are places where families
go on a sunday afternoon to meet, let the children play in the
playground, have an ice-creme, pancake or even full dinner together.
- Why is a toilet without gender tag considered men-only ? Where I
live public toilets have separate sections for women and men, that is
why we do not bother to map gender.
- Why is mapping a brothel considered bad ? Can't it be seen as a
warning for families enjoying a walk with little children to avoid
those areas ? On the other hand the article asks for mapping places
where women feel safe, so isn't this part of it ?
- I think that as far as abortion clinics go that in my country it is
just one of specialisms of the regular hospitals.

So some conclusions might have been made by extrapolation from a local
situation where certain tagging indicates a gender bias. But this does
not mean that the same tagging in an other country is also
gender-biased.

Furthermore, my feeling is that we need a more positive approach to
fix missing data (whether it is caused by gender bias or not).
So instead of "We are group X, we analyzed item Y in OSM, and it's not
there. There are more items Z mapped. Bad OSM"
Can't we go for an approach
"We are group X, we need data on item Y, please help us mapping item
Y, we are grateful if you do, thanks"

I think the latter is more welcoming, more friendly, less criticising
the current mappers (according to the article "retired white men").
Don't we all want to make OSM friendly for everybody ? including the
current mappers ?

What do you think ? Am I way off ?

m

Post by Mikel Maron
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/03/who-maps-the-world/555272/
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[Rory McCann]

Hi Marc,

Unfortunately a lot of things are gendered, and often it's not logical.
So when someone say "In my home ($COUNTRY), $THING is gendered for
$GENDER", you basically have to just take their word for it, even if it
doesn't make logical sense for you. So people can't really answer "Why?"
It is because it is (in $COUNTRY).

Post by Marc Gemis
- Why is a bar considered a men-only place ? Can't it be a trendy
place for all kinds young people to enjoy a good night out ?
I have seen pubs mentioned in previous articles as well. Where I
live we map "taverns" as pubs. Many taverns are places where families
go on a sunday afternoon to meet, let the children play in the
playground, have an ice-creme, pancake or even full dinner together.

Traditionally (in IE & UK) women weren't allowed in pubs, and not
supposed to drink pints. Ergo there's still an overhang of that.

Post by Marc Gemis
- Why is a toilet without gender tag considered men-only ? Where I
live public toilets have separate sections for women and men, that is
why we do not bother to map gender.

Apparently in some countries that's not true! At SotM 2016 Srravya C
explained that this isn't the case in India.

[Marc Gemis]

Rory,

I did not want to say that some objects are not gendered in some
countries, I'm sorry for not making that clear.
I wanted to point out is that "because object X is gendered in a
country, it is gendered in every country" is wrong.
So any statistics that count the number of objects X on a global level
to point out gender inequality is wrong.


regards

m.

Post by Rory McCann
Hi Marc,
Unfortunately a lot of things are gendered, and often it's not logical. So
when someone say "In my home ($COUNTRY), $THING is gendered for $GENDER",
you basically have to just take their word for it, even if it doesn't make
logical sense for you. So people can't really answer "Why?" It is because it
is (in $COUNTRY).

Post by Marc Gemis
- Why is a bar considered a men-only place ? Can't it be a trendy
place for all kinds young people to enjoy a good night out ?
I have seen pubs mentioned in previous articles as well. Where I
live we map "taverns" as pubs. Many taverns are places where families
go on a sunday afternoon to meet, let the children play in the
playground, have an ice-creme, pancake or even full dinner together.

Traditionally (in IE & UK) women weren't allowed in pubs, and not supposed
to drink pints. Ergo there's still an overhang of that.

Post by Marc Gemis
- Why is a toilet without gender tag considered men-only ? Where I
live public toilets have separate sections for women and men, that is
why we do not bother to map gender.

Apparently in some countries that's not true! At SotM 2016 Srravya C
explained that this isn't the case in India.
--
Rory